[USCC] Landfill
Brian E Fuchs
bfuchs at wlgore.com
Mon Jan 5 08:12:50 CST 2009
Myron
Please see attached link. Region of Niagara, Ontario has a nice report on
their website discussing the benefits of composting versus various
landfilling options.
http://www.niagararegion.ca/news/2008/pdf/jan21Study.pdf
Brian Fuchs
GORE(TM) Cover Systems
W.L. Gore & Associates Inc.
105 Vieves Way, Elkton, MD 21921 USA
Mobile: 610-733-4078
Office: 410-506-5041 Fax: 410-392-4452
Email: bfuchs at wlgore.com
www.gore.com www.gorecover.com
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______________________________________________________________________________
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Landfill (Tamara Thomas)
2. Re: Landfill (Donna Pascoe)
3. Re: Free Web Seminar: Using Compost as a Stormwater Best
Management Practice (Edo McGowan)
4. Re: Landfill (David Goldstein)
----- Message from "Tamara Thomas" <tnthomas at terre-source.com> on Wed, 31
Dec 2008 11:32:51 -0800 -----
To:
"'Compost Discussion List'" <compost at mailman.cloudnet.com>
Subject:
Re: [USCC] Landfill
Myron,
I heard Dr. Sally Brown of the University of Washington
speak to the landfill gas collection issue a year or so ago. As I recall,
the problem with claiming that landfill gas collection is a carbon neutral
or positive technology has to do with the fact that the greatest
percentage of methane is generated within the first year or two. Generally
a landfill is not covered immediately, and it takes some time to fill,
cover, and implement the landfill gas system. During that initial time,
according to Dr. Brown, most of the methane has been generated and lost.
An abstract of "Is Converting Landfill Gas to Energy the Best Option?" by
Janet Pelley, in Environ. Sci. Technol., quotes her as saying
"...[methane] capture rates over a landfill?s lifetime can be as low as
40?50%...".
I recommend contacting her and/or researching her
publications on the issue.
Best wishes,
Tamara Thomas, P.E.
Terre-SourceLLC
Helping Compost Happen!
360-336-3536 Office
360-336-3530 FAX
425-844-6068 Field
-----Original Message-----
From: hirschsys at aol.com [mailto:hirschsys at aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:22 PM
To: compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
Subject: [USCC] Landfill
For future discusions:
As active landfills put in gas collection systems they sometimes claim to
now be a recycling option because they capture?some of the methane.? This
has actually caused the closing of some good composting operations due to
yard trimmings being diverted back into landfills.
Does someone have the?statistics on this subject?? Estimates of the carbon
going into a landfill would be fairly?easy to calculate, the captured
methane coming out is measureable.? An estimate of how long a landfill
will continue to produce is? available so therefore an efficiency
should?have been calculated.? I am sure it has , I just don't remember it.
Could someone from the compost?group help me on this.???
Thank you
Myron Hirschman?
----- Message from "Donna Pascoe" <d.pascoe at sympatico.ca> on Wed, 31 Dec
2008 23:13:13 +0000 -----
To:
compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
Subject:
Re: [USCC] Landfill
Hello Myron, There are digesters on the market and operational in Europe
that semi-digest the waste material, remove the methane and put the
semi-digested material out for final digestion into stable compost. The
drawback of these units is their cost of around $ 20,000,000. and the
undying dream of cheap places to hide waste.
My concern of adding anything to landfill is not a slight reduction in
available material for composting but the increase in the volume of toxic
leachates that run everyday, for who knows how long, from every landfill.
Although our company has been very sucessful in treating this leachate it
is
an expensive and complex arrangement.
As many of us embraced composting as part of a wholelistic solution to no
more landfills in the future, I think a few pennies of poor quality dirty
methane will soon run its coarse in the history of dumb ideas.
Regards Peter Turrell
Director Millennium Institution
>From: hirschsys at aol.com
>Reply-To: Compost Discussion List <compost at mailman.cloudnet.com>
>To: compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
>Subject: [USCC] Landfill
>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:21:33 -0500
>
>
>For future discusions:
>
>As active landfills put in gas collection systems they sometimes claim to
>now be a recycling option because they capture?some of the methane.? This
>has actually caused the closing of some good composting operations due to
>yard trimmings being diverted back into landfills.
>
>Does someone have the?statistics on this subject?? Estimates of the
carbon
>going into a landfill would be fairly?easy to calculate, the captured
>methane coming out is measureable.? An estimate of how long a landfill
will
>continue to produce is? available so therefore an efficiency should?have
>been calculated.? I am sure it has , I just don't remember it.
>
>Could someone from the compost?group help me on this.???
>
>Thank you
>Myron Hirschman?
>_______________________________________
>Join us as the US Composting Council's 17th Annual Conference & Trade
Show,
>January 26-29, 2009 at the Westin Galleria, Houston, TX. The Largest
>Conference & Exhibition in North America for the Composting, Wood Waste,
&
>Organics Recycling Industry. The Most Comprehensive Program of 11
Training
>Courses, 100+ Educational & Technical Presentations, and Facility Tours &
>"Live" Equipment Demonstrations from 20+ Manufacturers.
>Conference Highlights & Program, Registration forms, Exhibitor
Information
>and Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website.
>www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631. 737. 4931
>_____________________________________________________________________________
>Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
>http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>_______________________________________
>This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
>(c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved
>
>Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation,
>or the Board of Directors.
>
>Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its
website
>at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm
>
>Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their
>posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and
information
>regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:
>http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>
>For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send
a
>message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org
----- Message from Edo McGowan <edo_mcgowan at hotmail.com> on Thu, 1 Jan
2009 00:49:59 +0000 -----
To:
<compost at mailman.cloudnet.com>
Subject:
Re: [USCC] Free Web Seminar: Using Compost as a Stormwater Best Management
Practice
One of the problems that may be encountered is the release of antibiotic
resistant pathogens through this, especially if sewage sludge had been
used as a feed stock. This also may accrue to kitchen scraps as most of
the chicken delivered to large kitchens as well as some of the other meat
animal scraps do contain impressive numbers of antibiotic resistant
pathogens. These scraps go into a bucket, are kept at temperatures that
encourage growth, so numbers can be impressive. There are enough peer
reviewed papers in the literature base discussing the failure of certain
composting processes to effectively eliminate pathogens or their genetic
material to warrant further review. This would be a good review topic to
send to the Cornell group for comment. I suspect that there may be
problems based on my research and this should be verified to get some
better answers.
Dr Edo McGowan
> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:27:00 -0600
> From: wcarter at tceq.state.tx.us
> To: compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
> Subject: [USCC] Free Web Seminar: Using Compost as a Stormwater Best
Management Practice
>
> The webinar will be held on Thursday, Jan. 8 at the following time:
> Topic: Compost Based Stormwater Best Management Practices
> Time: 10:00 am, Central Standard Time
>
> US EPA Region 5 invites you to participate in a webinar on the
innovative aspects of using compost as a stormwater best management
practice (BMP) on Jan. 8. This webinar is focused on how stormwater
managers can use compost blankets, berms, and filters as a tool to reduce
stormwater runoff and improve soil quality
>
> To participate in this webinar, you must register on-line at:
https://srameeting.webex.com/srameeting/j.php?ED=95494307&RG=1&UID=0
>
> Once your request is approved, you will receive a confirmation email
with instructions for joining the meeting.
>
> Speakers include the following:
> Amy J. Sausen, Environmental Project Coordinator, The Bruce Company of
Wisconsin
> Dwayne Stenlund, Office of Environmental Services, Turf and Erosion
Control Engineering Unit, Minnesota Department of Transportation
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Carter
> Water Quality Monitoring & Assessment MC 165
> Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
> P.O. Box 13087
> Austin, TX 78711-3087
> Phone: 512-239-6771
> Fax: 512-239-4410
> wcarter at tceq.state.tx.us
> _______________________________________
> Join us as the US Composting Council's 17th Annual Conference & Trade
Show, January 26-29, 2009 at the Westin Galleria, Houston, TX. The Largest
Conference & Exhibition in North America for the Composting, Wood Waste, &
Organics Recycling Industry. The Most Comprehensive Program of 11 Training
Courses, 100+ Educational & Technical Presentations, and Facility Tours &
"Live" Equipment Demonstrations from 20+ Manufacturers.
> Conference Highlights & Program, Registration forms, Exhibitor
Information and Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website.
www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631. 737. 4931
>
_____________________________________________________________________________
> Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
> _______________________________________
> This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
> (c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights
reserved
>
> Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the
Foundation, or the Board of Directors.
>
> Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its
website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm
>
> Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their
posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and information
regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>
> For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send
a message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org
_________________________________________________________________
----- Message from "David Goldstein" <David.Goldstein at ventura.org> on Wed,
31 Dec 2008 16:54:50 -0800 -----
To:
"Compost Discussion List" <compost at mailman.cloudnet.com>
Subject:
Re: [USCC] Landfill
Matt,
I'm not defending the use of organics as alternative daily cover at
landfills, but just to keep things clear, we should cover the
counterpoints to some items discussed below.
1. Since many landfills close due to time (permit expiration and community
opposition to renewal), rather than due to tonnage or volume, we can't
always say it is a waste of space to use yard clippings as alternative
daily cover.
2. Some in the landfill industry claim they are doing a better job of
addressing climate change than the compost industry does. They may have a
point when it comes to sequestering carbon from very woody waste, and some
curbside yardwaste collection routes can be inefficient, but you have a
good point (below) about five years of un-captured methane emissions from
more nitrogen rich loads.
3. In some cases, prohibiting yard waste as alternative daily cover could
result in importing dirt from off-site, which can cause more emissions.
Happy new year,
David Goldstein
Recycling Market Development Zone
>>> "Matthew Cotton" <matt at mattcotton.com> 12/31/2008 9:32 AM >>>
Myron -
Thanks for kicking off a great topic for (almost) 2009. The issue of
"feedstock competition" is an important one. As you know, almost half
of the states ban some form of yard trimmings from landfills. A few
states are now considering similar bans on food scraps. As we all
learn more about greenhouse gas and climate change, there is likely
going to be an increase in the connection between putting organic
materials in landfills and the methane that is created. Yes, some
landfills have very sophisticated "landfill gas" collection systems.
These systems can measure the amount of gas captured, but they don't
measure the gas they don't capture. There are theoretical models
which can both over and under estimate the amount of landfill gas
that might be generated. As you can imagine, all sorts of variables
contribute to this - waste composition, compaction and covering
methods, climate, age of the landfill, and perhaps the most important
one - when the gas system is installed and operating - many of these
systems are not activated for up to 5 years after waste is placed,
thus that food waste from your Holiday dinner may be covered and
compacted and generating methane well before the gas collection
system is turned on.
Sally Brown has made some initial conceptual estimates of this using
the gas production numbers from anaerobic digestion studies, so that
is a place to start if you want to generate some numbers. This is
important for a few reasons - first we need to know a lot more about
how organics behave in landfills and appreciate that every landfill
is different. But perhaps more importantly if there are to ever be
carbon credits for composting, we need to be able to accurately
calculate the avoided methane emissions from not landfilling organics
(not to mention the benefits of applying compost - something else Dr.
Brown is working on).
The USCC's Legislative and Environmental Affairs Committee is
actively engaged in these issues. There are two Fact Sheets on the
USCC Website which provide some good background.
http://www.compostingcouncil.org/education/resources.php
We are likely to see more efforts to overturn landfill bans in those
states that have them and more efforts to get more organics back to
landfills in those states that don't; most of this will be about
alleged increases in landfill gas recovery. In addition to the
problems listed above, the amount of electricity received from
increasing organics in landfills is often grossly overstated. J.D.
Lindeberg (Chair of the USCC's L&EA Committee) wrote an excellent
critique of this in an effort to thwart efforts to overturn
Michigan's landfill ban on organics. This should also be on the USCC
website.
The policy basis behind most of the state landfill bans on organics
is as sound today as it was in the early 1990s - organics take up a
lot of space in landfills. While a few people who should know better
still labor under the misunderstanding that organics breakdown in
landfills, we learn over and over again that this is overstated. A
recent study by a landfill engineering company here in CA estimated
that a particular county was spending $11 - $12 million a year in
lost landfill space by using processed yard trimmings as landfill
cover (A bizarre practice, which in CA is equivalent to
"recycling"). This was processed yard trimmings, with airspace
savings calculated after compaction (so, fairly conservative). All of
this was based on a relatively low tipping fee of $22/ton.
Given the current economic situation, I don't think any City or
County can afford to be that wasteful.
Here's to a Happy New Year filled with composting opportunities!
See you in Houston.
Matthew Cotton
Integrated Waste Management Consulting, LLC
19375 Lake City Road
Nevada City, CA 95959
(530) 265-4560
Fax (530) 265-4547
matt at mattcotton.com
www.mattcotton.com
On Dec 30, 2008, at 2:21 PM, hirschsys at aol.com wrote:
>
> For future discusions:
>
> As active landfills put in gas collection systems they sometimes
> claim to now be a recycling option because they capture?some of the
> methane.? This has actually caused the closing of some good
> composting operations due to yard trimmings being diverted back
> into landfills.
>
> Does someone have the?statistics on this subject?? Estimates of the
> carbon going into a landfill would be fairly?easy to calculate, the
> captured methane coming out is measureable.? An estimate of how
> long a landfill will continue to produce is? available so therefore
> an efficiency should?have been calculated.? I am sure it has , I
> just don't remember it.
>
> Could someone from the compost?group help me on this.???
>
> Thank you
> Myron Hirschman?
Matt,
I'm not defending the use of organics as alternative daily cover at
landfills, but just to keep things clear, we should understand the
counterpoints to some items discussed below.
1. Since many of our landfills close due to time (permit expiration and
community opposition to renewal), rather than due to tonnage or volume, we
can't always say it is a waste of space to use yard clippings as
alternative daily cover.
2. Some in the landfill industry claim they are doing a better job of
addressing climate change than the compost industry does. They may have a
point when it comes to sequestering carbon from very woody waste, and some
curbside yardwaste collection routes can be inefficient, but you have a
good point (below) about five years of un-captured methane emissions from
more nitrogen rich loads.
3. In some cases, prohibiting yard waste as alternative daily cover could
result in importing dirt from off-site, which can cause more emissions.
D.G.
>>> "Matthew Cotton" <matt at mattcotton.com> 12/31/2008 9:32 AM >>>
Myron -
Thanks for kicking off a great topic for (almost) 2009. The issue of
"feedstock competition" is an important one. As you know, almost half
of the states ban some form of yard trimmings from landfills. A few
states are now considering similar bans on food scraps. As we all
learn more about greenhouse gas and climate change, there is likely
going to be an increase in the connection between putting organic
materials in landfills and the methane that is created. Yes, some
landfills have very sophisticated "landfill gas" collection systems.
These systems can measure the amount of gas captured, but they don't
measure the gas they don't capture. There are theoretical models
which can both over and under estimate the amount of landfill gas
that might be generated. As you can imagine, all sorts of variables
contribute to this - waste composition, compaction and covering
methods, climate, age of the landfill, and perhaps the most important
one - when the gas system is installed and operating - many of these
systems are not activated for up to 5 years after waste is placed,
thus that food waste from your Holiday dinner may be covered and
compacted and generating methane well before the gas collection
system is turned on.
Sally Brown has made some initial conceptual estimates of this using
the gas production numbers from anaerobic digestion studies, so that
is a place to start if you want to generate some numbers. This is
important for a few reasons - first we need to know a lot more about
how organics behave in landfills and appreciate that every landfill
is different. But perhaps more importantly if there are to ever be
carbon credits for composting, we need to be able to accurately
calculate the avoided methane emissions from not landfilling organics
(not to mention the benefits of applying compost - something else Dr.
Brown is working on).
The USCC's Legislative and Environmental Affairs Committee is
actively engaged in these issues. There are two Fact Sheets on the
USCC Website which provide some good background.
http://www.compostingcouncil.org/education/resources.php
We are likely to see more efforts to overturn landfill bans in those
states that have them and more efforts to get more organics back to
landfills in those states that don't; most of this will be about
alleged increases in landfill gas recovery. In addition to the
problems listed above, the amount of electricity received from
increasing organics in landfills is often grossly overstated. J.D.
Lindeberg (Chair of the USCC's L&EA Committee) wrote an excellent
critique of this in an effort to thwart efforts to overturn
Michigan's landfill ban on organics. This should also be on the USCC
website.
The policy basis behind most of the state landfill bans on organics
is as sound today as it was in the early 1990s - organics take up a
lot of space in landfills. While a few people who should know better
still labor under the misunderstanding that organics breakdown in
landfills, we learn over and over again that this is overstated. A
recent study by a landfill engineering company here in CA estimated
that a particular county was spending $11 - $12 million a year in
lost landfill space by using processed yard trimmings as landfill
cover (A bizarre practice, which in CA is equivalent to
"recycling"). This was processed yard trimmings, with airspace
savings calculated after compaction (so, fairly conservative). All of
this was based on a relatively low tipping fee of $22/ton.
Given the current economic situation, I don't think any City or
County can afford to be that wasteful.
Here's to a Happy New Year filled with composting opportunities!
See you in Houston.
Matthew Cotton
Integrated Waste Management Consulting, LLC
19375 Lake City Road
Nevada City, CA 95959
(530) 265-4560
Fax (530) 265-4547
matt at mattcotton.com
www.mattcotton.com
On Dec 30, 2008, at 2:21 PM, hirschsys at aol.com wrote:
>
> For future discusions:
>
> As active landfills put in gas collection systems they sometimes
> claim to now be a recycling option because they capture?some of the
> methane.? This has actually caused the closing of some good
> composting operations due to yard trimmings being diverted back
> into landfills.
>
> Does someone have the?statistics on this subject?? Estimates of the
> carbon going into a landfill would be fairly?easy to calculate, the
> captured methane coming out is measureable.? An estimate of how
> long a landfill will continue to produce is? available so therefore
> an efficiency should?have been calculated.? I am sure it has , I
> just don't remember it.
>
> Could someone from the compost?group help me on this.???
>
> Thank you
> Myron Hirschman?
_______________________________________
Join us at the US Composting Council's 17th Annual Conference & Trade Show
January 26-29th, 2009 at the Westin Galleria in Houston, TX.
The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of
the composting and organics recycling industry.
Conference Highlights, Registration forms, Exhibitor information and
Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website:
www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631.737.4931
_______________________________________
Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
_______________________________________
This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
(c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved
Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation,
or the Board of Directors.
Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its website
at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm
Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their
posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and information
regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send a
message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org
More information about the Compost
mailing list