[USCC] What is anaerobic composting?

Tue Feb 24 21:29:35 CST 2009

I will need some follow up on your description of why it would be beneficial to boost up the anaerobic process with carbon. Normally, we digest with a very low C:N so adding bulking agents, especially carboneous ones seems counter intuitive to me. I would like to know more about this as we at the IEUA are looking into alternative uses for some of our digestion projects. We have lots of substrates available so any information is appreciated. Thanks

Jeff Ziegenbein
Deputy Manager of operations and Organics Management
Inland Empire Utilities Agency
909-993-1981

-----Original Message-----
From: compost-bounces at mailman.cloudnet.com [mailto:compost-bounces at mailman.cloudnet.com] On Behalf Of Donald Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM
To: Compost Discussion List
Subject: Re: [USCC] What is anaerobic composting?

Hi, All,

I have only a little to add to the discussion. My first point is that anaerobic digestion by itself results in a "Stinking mess" to quote many people who have been exposed to sewage sludge over the years. Yes, I knopw that it is supposed to be called "Biosolids", but I am at an age where I am usually accorded some latitude in my use of vocabulary. We should all think of that really objectionable (to humans) odor. However, I well remember the production of Compro by D. M. Hill's group at the Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission site in Montgomery County, MD, and Orgro, produced by the Veolia Company under agreement with Baltimore, MD. Both of these products start with the solids remaining after the anaerobic digestion of sewage, followed by aerobic decomposition of a mixture of the sludge and wood chips used primarily for bulking. The resulting products have been used in some VERY high visibility projects in the Baltimore-Washington Corridor.

Because of our experience with these two products, Maryland defines "Compost" as the product of the Aerobic digestion of organic material. This distinction needs to be remembered lest the market for compost disappear because of the negative association of anaerobic decomposition with objectionable odors and phytotoxic compounds.

DOnald V. Lewis
Compost Coordinator
State Chemist Section
Maryland Department of Agriculture
50 Harry S. Truman Parkway
Annapolis, MD 20401
Ph. 410-841-2721

>>> "Dan Noble" <dan at resourcetrends.com> 2/13/2009 1:23 PM >>>
Hi Jeff,

No, I don't believe the folks claiming benefiting from anaerobic composting
are just giving up, rather they're using it in an engineered process... and
I agree, it may be a "misnomer", but the terms are already out there,
attempting to describe an actual, bona fide organics treatment train.  Like
in the case of Kompogas.com, it's a two stage process.  The first stage
(anaerobic composting) is not a "mistake", but rather is in a closed
container, but in a wet pile (sometimes rotated/mixed), but the methane that
is produced is captured and either stored and piped, or cleaned and used to
produce electricity in gas turbines onsite (just like "normal" anaerobic
digestion (AD)).  The digestate (what's left over from the anaerobic phase)
is then composted "normally" in an aerobic phase, typically mixed with an
additional carbon source (bulking agent), I believe.  So that's about all I
know... you've exhausted my meager knowledge on the subject.

As you and others on this email list have pointed out... it may be a
misnomer (i.e. simply "bad composting"... since, by definition, composting
IS, or should be(!), an aerobic process.  Maybe it would be better called
"less wet AD" or "dry AD" or some such.  Of course it's not really "dry"
since I believe it's still about 20-30% solids... compared to typical single
stage AD which is about 5-10% solids/water, right?  But the physical state
is not so much a slurry, like normal AD, but more like a very wet compost
pile, I believe (particle size obviously factors into this.  Imagine food
and green waste together, where you have more food waste (wet, more
nitrogen) than green waste (dryer more carbon).  Whereas aerobic composting
is between more or less about 50%, right?  But again, it would be better for
someone else who really understands this more than me to chime in and
explain this further... now's a chance!

My only purpose for piping up was to point out that these technologies ARE
being used successfully for years in Europe and are now starting to come to
the US.  For me, the idea of getting BOTH energy AND composted soil
amendments is very interesting and I believe that our US Composting industry
should at least stay open to the idea and, better, investigate it further.
Maybe some of you have seen presentations by these companies (I saw them at
our local/annual PORS, Pacific-southwest Organics Residuals Symposium a
couple of years ago). So rather than dismiss it as not "real" or "quality"
composting, my belief is that we need to understand the important interface
between anerobic and aerobic processes in both our slurries as well as piles
and then determine (via total/local life cycle analysis) which processes and
markets are best for our "net environmental/financial benefits" in our local
communities.

Sincerely,
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Ziegenbein" <jziegenb at ieua.org>
To: "'Compost Discussion List'" <compost at mailman.cloudnet.com>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [USCC] What is anaerobic composting?

> Anaerobic composting is what most of us try to avoid. We spend energy and
> resources turning and/or aerating to keep our piles from turning anaerobic
> is much as possible. Maybe the folks claiming to benefit from it are just
> giving up.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: compost-bounces at mailman.cloudnet.com
> [mailto:compost-bounces at mailman.cloudnet.com] On Behalf Of Dan Noble
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:37 PM
> To: Compost Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [USCC] What is anaerobic composting?
>
> Too late!  It's already in the industrial lexicon, like the word
> "organic".
> Again... Google it and see all the papers.
> Dan, ACP, www.healthsoil.org
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald Lewis" <LewisDV at mda.state.md.us>
> To: "'Compost Discussion List'" <compost at mailman.cloudnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [USCC] What is anaerobic composting?
>
>
>>I would ask this list whether anaerobic and compost are even compatible
>>words. Engineers usually use the term "Anaerobic Composting" to mean
>>"Anaerobic digestion". The term "anaerobic digestion" can then be reserved
>>for sewage, which everyone knows is bad. The problem with what is called
>>"anaerobic composting" is that anaerobic processes stink and produce a
>>product with very low pH, and containing phytotoxic chemicals.
>>
>> What the engineer was trying to describe is a product that is decomposed
>> in the absence of air. Currently, there is a process that has drawn a
>> fair
>> amount of attention that involves anaerobic digestion with the collection
>> of methane to be used as a fuel, followed by mixing with a bulking agent
>> like wood chips and aerobic composting. This process can result in an
>> acceptable product if the odor problems at the beginning of the
>> composting
>> process can be dealt with.
>>
>> Don Lewis
>> Compost Coordinator
>> Maryland Department of Agriculture
>> 50 Harry S. Truman Parkway
>> Annapolis, MD 21401
>> Tel. # 410-841-2721
>>
>>>>> "Myron Hirschman" <hirschsys at aol.com> 2/12/2009 12:23 PM >>>
>> I was recently in a meeting discussing composting options for the
>> community.
>> Their engineer mentioned anaerobic composting as a system.  I didn't have
>> the opportunity to get that explained to me. I am guessing he meant
>> systems
>> that didn't have forced aeration ( if that is what he meant I disagree
>> with
>> his use of the terms).
>>
>> Please educate me.
>> What is anaerobic composting?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Myron H
>> myron at hirschsystems.com
>>
>> _______________________________________
>> Join us as the US Composting Council's 18th Annual Conference & Trade
>> Show, January 24-27, 2010 at the Wyndham Orlando Resort, FL. The Largest
>> Conference & Exhibition in North America for the Composting, Wood Waste,
>> &
>> Organics Recycling Industry. The Most Comprehensive Program of Training
>> Courses, Educational & Technical Presentations, and Facility Tours &
>> "Live" Equipment Demonstrations at the Disney/Reedy Creek Composting
>> Facility. Conference Highlights & Program, Registration forms, Exhibitor
>> Information and Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website
>> www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631.737.4931
>> _____________________________________________________________________________
>> Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
>> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>> _______________________________________
>> This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
>> (c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved
>>
>> Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation,
>> or the Board of Directors.
>>
>> Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its
>> website
>> at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm
>>
>> Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their
>> posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and
>> information
>> regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:
>> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>>
>> For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send
>> a
>> message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org
>>
>> _______________________________________
>> Join us as the US Composting Council's 18th Annual Conference & Trade
>> Show, January 24-27, 2010 at the Wyndham Orlando Resort, FL. The Largest
>> Conference & Exhibition in North America for the Composting, Wood Waste,
>> &
>> Organics Recycling Industry. The Most Comprehensive Program of Training
>> Courses, Educational & Technical Presentations, and Facility Tours &
>> "Live" Equipment Demonstrations at the Disney/Reedy Creek Composting
>> Facility. Conference Highlights & Program, Registration forms, Exhibitor
>> Information and Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website
>> www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631.737.4931
>> _____________________________________________________________________________
>> Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
>> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>> _______________________________________
>> This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
>> (c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved
>>
>> Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation,
>> or the Board of Directors.
>>
>> Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its
>> website
>> at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm
>>
>> Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their
>> posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and
>> information
>> regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:
>> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>>
>> For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send
>> a
>> message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________
> Join us as the US Composting Council's 18th Annual Conference & Trade
> Show, January 24-27, 2010 at the Wyndham Orlando Resort, FL. The Largest
> Conference & Exhibition in North America for the Composting, Wood Waste, &
> Organics Recycling Industry. The Most Comprehensive Program of Training
> Courses, Educational & Technical Presentations, and Facility Tours &
> "Live" Equipment Demonstrations at the Disney/Reedy Creek Composting
> Facility. Conference Highlights & Program, Registration forms, Exhibitor
> Information and Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website
> www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631.737.4931
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
> _______________________________________
> This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
> (c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved
>
> Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation,
> or the Board of Directors.
>
> Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its website
> at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm
>
> Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their
> posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and information
> regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:
> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>
> For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send a
> message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org
> _______________________________________
> Join us as the US Composting Council's 18th Annual Conference & Trade
> Show, January 24-27, 2010 at the Wyndham Orlando Resort, FL. The Largest
> Conference & Exhibition in North America for the Composting, Wood Waste, &
> Organics Recycling Industry. The Most Comprehensive Program of Training
> Courses, Educational & Technical Presentations, and Facility Tours &
> "Live" Equipment Demonstrations at the Disney/Reedy Creek Composting
> Facility. Conference Highlights & Program, Registration forms, Exhibitor
> Information and Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website
> www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631.737.4931
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
> _______________________________________
> This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
> (c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved
>
> Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation,
> or the Board of Directors.
>
> Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its website
> at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm
>
> Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their
> posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and information
> regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:
> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>
> For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send a
> message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org
>
>

_______________________________________
Join us as the US Composting Council's 18th Annual Conference & Trade Show, January 24-27, 2010 at the Wyndham Orlando Resort, FL. The Largest Conference & Exhibition in North America for the Composting, Wood Waste, & Organics Recycling Industry. The Most Comprehensive Program of Training Courses, Educational & Technical Presentations, and Facility Tours & "Live" Equipment Demonstrations at the Disney/Reedy Creek Composting Facility. Conference Highlights & Program, Registration forms, Exhibitor Information and Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631.737.4931
_____________________________________________________________________________
Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
_______________________________________
This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
(c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved

Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation, or the Board of Directors.

Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm

Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to: http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost

For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send a message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org

_______________________________________
Join us as the US Composting Council's 18th Annual Conference & Trade Show, January 24-27, 2010 at the Wyndham Orlando Resort, FL. The Largest Conference & Exhibition in North America for the Composting, Wood Waste, & Organics Recycling Industry. The Most Comprehensive Program of Training Courses, Educational & Technical Presentations, and Facility Tours & "Live" Equipment Demonstrations at the Disney/Reedy Creek Composting Facility. Conference Highlights & Program, Registration forms, Exhibitor Information and Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631.737.4931
_____________________________________________________________________________
Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
_______________________________________
This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
(c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved

Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation, or the Board of Directors.

Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm

Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to: http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost

For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send a message to the List Manager at compostlistmanager at compostingcouncil.org