[USCC] SPAM-LOW: Compost and tree planting

Thu Apr 3 09:58:14 CDT 2008

Will, David Hill's response to this thread is the best yet as it relates to
your suggestion of "Soil lessons for composters". It's positive,
educational, responsive, and worth repeating:

David Hill's wrote-- 

"I have forwarded your question to the American Nursery and Landscape
Association and will post their response as soon as I receive it.

I am a little amazed that, without regard to whether the tree is B&B, bare
root or container grown, the urban forestry group categorically does not
amend the back fill. As a degreed horticulturist with greater than thirty
years of field experience, I have always set the base of a root ball or
containerized plant on undisturbed soil in the hole and created a transition
zone in the backfill mix, going from the medium in which the tree was gown
to the surrounding soil. Soil physics and hydrology do not allow water to
pass easily between drastically different soil types. Container grown trees
are grown in a very friable, porous medium (often soil less). If this tree
gets planted in a hole with no transitional material, very often water
collects in the planting pit and does not easily drain to the surrounding
soil (called the bath tub effect). Conversely, containerized growing media
tends to dry faster than a native soil. When this happens, water does not
easily or quickly pass fr  om a (denser) native soil to a very porous
planting mix, so the tree may become dessicated while the surrounding soil
has adequate moisture to supply the tree.

The same is true for B&B trees. Field grown trees often have a higher
percentage of clay in order for the root balls to maintain integrity. It is
extremely rare that the nursery soil and the urban soil will be of the same
soil type and/or density, so the physical transition of water is often
impeded.

In any case, by improving the water holding capacity, porosity, and
supplying nutrient and humates while increasing the populations of
beneficial microbes at the root zone, the tree has a better opportunity to
flourish earlier after its planting.

With regard to the roots never wanting to leave the nutrient rich planting
pit, I have seen this quite often however, it is most often a function of
rot-proof (nylon) burlap that was never removed, thus strangling the roots
as they mature or containerized plants improperly planted by not cutting
circling roots (that become girdling roots) from the container when planted.

Hope this helps. I will post the ANLA response."

David Hill
CycleLogic
(301) 493-5180 

Wayne King Sr.
ERTH Products LLC
402 Line Creek Drive
Peachtree City, GA  30269
Office: (770) 487-6677
Fax:    (770) 487-3992
waynesr at erthproducts.com
www.erthproducts.com

-----Original Message-----
From: compost-bounces at mailman.cloudnet.com
[mailto:compost-bounces at mailman.cloudnet.com] On Behalf Of Will Brinton
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:50 PM
To: Compost Discussion List
Subject: SPAM-LOW: [USCC] Compost and tree planting

Hello Composters:

I wonder if it is time for a "soil lesson for composters".

There are many horticulturalists I work with that do NOT recommend 
adding compost to a tree hole. Not all of this is their ignorance of 
compost, as some would like us to believe. They are in fact "pro-soil" 
and especially "pro-native soil" people. They believe in soil, and the 
plant's ability to establish a relationship with it that is long term, 
sustainable. It's wrong for composters to berate them without better 
information or appropriate training,  particularly under the 
circumstances where we have no standards for compost that relate to this 
use.

I am very concerned that people may overlook the value of the tree being 
installed. I recently put in some  1-2" caliper trees and paid $400 - 
600 per tree. I used a dusting of very, very mature compost, not wanting 
to disturb the native soil acceptance.  At my Long Island compost 
seminar recently hosted by Marder's Nursery, the nurserymen said the 
trees they are planting are in the neighborhood of $3,000 each, and they 
are very cautious about what goes in the hole. With container media it's 
different, as with amending topsoil prior to turf installation.

One noticable outcome if you use too much compost in a hole, is called 
subsidence. Essentially all the OM will decay, eventually creating a 
depression in the ground, that is often harmful, and not easily 
corrected.  These are just some considerations before we go off the 
"deep end" with compost, when there are so many appropriate, better uses.

Will Brinton

Rhonda Sherman wrote:

>Michele,
>
>I ran across the "don't use compost when planting trees" recommendation
>just a couple of weeks ago while scanning "The Rodale Book of Composting."
>Everything you were told by your local urban forestry group is stated on
>page 223.
>
>I was surprised when I read it, as I hadn't seen anything like that before.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Rhonda Sherman
>Extension Solid Waste Specialist
>Biological & Agricultural Engineering Department
>N. C. State University, Box 7625
>Raleigh, NC  27695-7625
>Phone 919/515-6770; Fax 919/515-6772
>E-mail: rhonda_sherman at ncsu.edu
>http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/people/faculty/sherman
>
>
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-- 
William F Brinton Ph.D
Woods End Laboratories, Inc.
Mt Vernon MAINE USA 04352
+001 207 293 2457

_______________________________________
Join us at the US Composting Council's 17th Annual Conference & Trade Show
January 26-29th, 2009 at the Westin Galleria in Houston, TX.
The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of
the composting and organics recycling industry.
Conference Highlights, Registration forms, Exhibitor information and
Sponsorship Opportunities available at the USCC website:
www.compostingcouncil.org or call the USCC at 631.737.4931 
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Compost maillist - compost at mailman.cloudnet.com
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
_______________________________________
This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council (USCC).
(c) Copyright 2004 United States Composting Council - All rights reserved

Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the USCC, the Foundation, or
the Board of Directors.

Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through its website
at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm

Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses may have their
posting privileges suspended. For discussion list policies and information
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For additional help in unsubcribing or to report bugs and problems, send a
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