[USCC] FW: Re: Fecal Coliform testing issues

Tue Oct 31 08:33:22 CST 2006

 Frank,
Heating will kill pathogens quickly, but pathogens are also killed by
aeration, microbiological competition, inhibition and enzymatic
activity. Pathogens would not be able to reinfest composted sewage under
well aerated conditions and probably at a lower temperature than those
required by the EPA 503 rule.    

Do to the nature of most sewage sludge that is composted as a PFRP, it
would be very difficult to change the pathogen reduction phase of
composting to the end of the heating phase, after the readily available
carbon and nutrient sources have been depleted.  This makes little sense
to me.   

I conclude that changing the curing and storage to improve aeration
would do more for eliminating pathogens than would changing period of
pathogen reduction.  This may include curing in smaller piles, or
aerating curing piles more thoroughly.

Dave Schellinger

-----Original Message-----
From: compost-bounces at composter.com
[mailto:compost-bounces at composter.com] On Behalf Of frank
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 6:49 PM
To: US Composting Council Compost Discussion List
Subject: Re: [USCC] FW: Re: Fecal Coliform testing issues

U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW Wyndham
Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007 The National forum
for those involved in the development and expansion of the composting
and organics recycling industry CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS,
WORKSHOP AGENDAS, EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES
ARE AVAILABLE AT THE USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE
USCC AT 631-737-4931 

Eliot, Composters,

I would like the Pathogen Reduction phase to finish at the end of the
heat phase, but still require stabilization as a requirement for a
'compost'. It seems it should end at the heat phase because that is the
only place in composting that will kill all the more resistant forms of
pathogens - it must happen here or it will not happen.
Stabilization can then be completed using vermistabilization (or
conventional means) and proof of being stabilized via a TMECC CO2
method. Requiring a FC test after stabilization via heat composting and
after curing takes place (at sale) seems to disallow others forms of
stabilizing processes. And once the pathogens have been killed it should
not matter. IMO Frank

epsteinee at comcast.net wrote:

>U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW Wyndham 
>Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007 The National forum 
>for those involved in the development and expansion of the composting 
>and organics recycling industry CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS,

>WORKSHOP AGENDAS, EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES 
>ARE AVAILABLE AT THE USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL 
>THE USCC AT 631-737-4931
>
>
>If a sample had fecal coliform (FC) bacteria when shipped, there could
be regrowth. When New York City sent their biosolids to Texas and
Colorado they found that before shippment they met the USEPA fecal
coliform count of less than 2 million as required cor Class B. When the
material arrived in the west the count was higher and did not met the
regulations.
>
>USEPA's regulations 40CFR503 state that the release of a product is
based on testing before shipment. Therefore one should test the product
before shipment and avoid a second remote test. The test should be
reported as MPN. The membrane filter method is not allowed.One needs to
understand the rational for the 1000 FC regulatory requirement. In 1988
Yanko for LA County Sanitation Districts conducted a study for USEPA. He
found that when the FC count was below 1000 MPN per gram total dry
solids no Salmonella sp. were detected (details in Epstein, 1997 "The
Science of Composting" pg. 459). Appendix F of the regulations provides
for sample preparation for fecal coliform and Salmonella sp. bacteria. 
>
>I have always advised my clients to test for Salmonella sp. bacteria
rather than fecal coliform.
>
>Eliot Epstein
>Epstein Environmental Consultants, LLC
>
>--
>Eliot Epstein
>19 Preston Place
>North Easton, MA 02356
>Tel: 508-238-1631
>Cell: 781-603-7151
>E-mail: epsteinee at comcast.net
>
>-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
>From: epsteinee at comcast.net
>To: US Composting Council Compost Discussion List 
><compost at composter.com>
>Subject: Re: [USCC] Fecal Coliform testing issues
>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:33:47 +0000
>
>If a sample had fecal coliform (FC) bacteria when shipped, there could
be regrowth. When New York City sent their biosolids to Texas and
Colorado they found that before shippment they met the USEPA fecal
coliform count of less than 2 million as required cor Class B. When the
material arrived in the west the count was higher and did not met the
regulations.
>
>USEPA's regulations 40CFR503 state that the release of a product is
based on testing before shipment. Therefore one should test the product
before shipment and avoid a second remote test. The test should be
reported as MPN. The membrane filter method is not allowed.One needs to
understand the rational for the 1000 FC regulatory requirement. In 1988
Yanko for LA County Sanitation Districts conducted a study for USEPA. He
found that when the FC count was below 1000 MPN per gram total dry
solids no Salmonella sp. were detected (details in Epstein, 1997 "The
Science of Composting" pg. 459). Appendix F of the regulations provides
for sample preparation for fecal coliform and Salmonella sp. bacteria. 
>
>I have always advised my clients to test for Salmonella sp. bacteria
rather than fecal coliform.
>
>Eliot Epstein
>Epstein Environmental Consultants, LLC
>
>--
>Eliot Epstein PhD
>Adjunct Professor of Public Health
>Boston University
>19 Preston Place
>North Easton, MA 02356
>Tel: 508-238-1631
>Cell: 781-603-7151
>E-mail: epsteinee at comcast.net
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: ALFRED RATTIE <arconsulting1 at verizon.net>
>
>  
>
>>U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW Wyndham 
>>Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007 The National forum 
>>for those involved in the development and expansion of the composting 
>>and organics recycling industry CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION 
>>FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS, EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP 
>>OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE USCC
>>WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931
>>
>>
>>Some participants of the USCC's STA Program are experiencing a failure

>>to meet pathogen reduction (fecal coliform) standards as required by 
>>EPA 503 regulations. This, while not a seemingly unusual situation;
>>- does not always occur with a given producer's compost
>>- sometimes occurs only after shipping to a distant STA lab, but not 
>>during local lab testing (some producers test twice)
>>- is occurring with both yard trimming and biosolids compost Two 
>>examples of recent problems are listed below:
>>**********************************************************************
>>**********
>>**********************************************************************
>>***
>>1) I had a series of conversation with an STA lab and several others 
>>regarding the fecal regrowth issues. Case in point, a recent analysis 
>>showing a fecal count of 1,900 was received. The five windrows that 
>>were composited and sampled for this test each passed local lab PFRP
testing, i.e. fecal coliform analysis.
>>I have documented proof of this. Now we have a set of lab results that

>>reflects data that makes this a class 2 product rather than a class 1 
>>product that it < BR>> started out as when it came out of the PFRP 
>>process. Again, we have records documenting time and temperature data
as well as the local lab fecal colifrom results. What would account for
this?
>>
>>2) I was failing fecal coliform testing when I shipped my compost to 
>>an STA lab using the prescribed TMECC practices. This ended when I 
>>used a courier service to make an immediate delivery. Is there a 
>>regrowth issue associated with shipping and handling?
>>**********************************************************************
>>**********
>>**********************************************************************
>>*** The USCC's STA Program requires participants to pass both pathogen

>>and metals testing. We are struggling to understand why these compost 
>>producers are experiencing this problem. All input is welcome.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Al Rattie
>>USCC STA Program Adminis trative/Technical Manager 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Compost maillist - Compost at composter.com 
>>http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>>
>>This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council. 
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are: 
>>
>>Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy 
>>e-mail alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry
professionals.
>>Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC at fien.com --- www.fien.com
>>
>>Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel 
>>NaturTech Composting System www.composter.com rcm at composter.com
>>
>>(c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved
>>
>>Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have
their > posting privelages suspended. No exceptions! 
>>
>>Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily 
>>the opinion or policy of any organization.
>>
>>Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our
website at: 
>>http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion list 
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>>
>_______________________________________________
>Compost maillist  -  Compost at composter.com 
>http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>
>This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council.
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are:
>
>Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy
e-mail alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry
professionals.
>Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC at fien.com --- www.fien.com
>
>Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel 
>NaturTech Composting System www.composter.com rcm at composter.com
>
>(c) Copyright 2006 United States  - All rights reserved
>
>Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have
their posting privelages suspended.  No exceptions!
>
>Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily
the opinion or policy of any organization.
>
>Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our
website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm     For
discussion list policies and information regarding subscribing,
unsubscribing, digest or other options, go
to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>
>For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and problems, 
>send a message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at 
>compost-owner at composter.com
>
>
>
>  
>

--
Frank Shields
Soil Control Lab
42 Hangar way
Watsonville, CA  95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
frank at compostlab.com
www.compostlab.com

_______________________________________________
Compost maillist  -  Compost at composter.com
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost

This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council.

_______________________________________________

Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are:

Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy
e-mail alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry
professionals.
Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC at fien.com --- www.fien.com

Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel
NaturTech Composting System www.composter.com rcm at composter.com

(c) Copyright 2006 United States  - All rights reserved

Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have
their posting privelages suspended.  No exceptions!

Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily the
opinion or policy of any organization.

Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our
website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm     For
discussion list policies and information regarding subscribing,
unsubscribing, digest or other options, go
to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost

For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and problems,
send a message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at
compost-owner at composter.com 