[USCC] Fecal Coliform testing issues
frank
frank at compostlab.com
Mon Oct 23 18:41:04 CDT 2006
Eliot, Dave and composters
I agree the compost needs be stabilized 'by some means' to prevent the
coliform and other facultative anaerobic from getting re-established.
Like the E. Coli 157 found in our back yard on the spenich fields I
guess that could even manage to repopulate in an unstable 'compost'. We
are planning to do tests for the E Coli 157 on several samples a week to
get an idea of how much of an unknown problem it is. Then when we are
asked we can say we tested and found none (hopefully).
But we differ in that I think the fecal coliform test should be done
after the heat stage. We have other and better means to determine if the
compost is stabilized like the BAC test.
Frank
epsteinee at comcast.net wrote:
> Frank,
>
> 1. Regarding sampling and shipping I suggest that composters follow
> the USEPA 40CFR503 Appendix F in the Document Control of Pathogens and
> Vector Attraction in Sewage Sludge. The latest document
> EPA/625/R-92/013 was issued on July 2003.
>
> 2. Since in the document a give-away sample should be tested before it
> leaves the gate, I absolutly recommend that only a cured sample be
> tested and that the end of curing be based on a stability test of
> either carbon dioxide evolution or oxygen uptake.
>
> Eliot
>
> --
> Eliot Epstein
> 19 Preston Place
> North Easton, MA 02356
> Tel: 508-238-1631
> Cell: 781-603-7151
> E-mail: epsteinee at comcast.net
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: frank <frank at compostlab.com>
>
> > U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW
> > Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007
> > The National forum for those involved in the development and
> expansion of the
> > composting and organics recycling industry
> > CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS,
> > EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE
> AVAILABLE AT THE USCC
> > WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931
> >
> >
> > Al, composters,
> >
> > There are two reasons for this as I see it.
> > 1) We take the temperature of every compost sample when we
> receive it
> > and many come in at room temperature. I suggest we look at the
> > packaging. I suggest a small compact, w ell insulated package
> containing
> > two one gallon plastic bags of compost with plenty of 'blue'
> frozen ice
> > packs. Also, I suggest making sure the compost is refrigerated
> before
> > the compost is placed into the container because I think a lot
> of warm
> > compost is placed into the container and the ice is long used up
> just
> > bringing the temperature from warm to cold.
> >
> > 2) When in an active compost pile the bacteria is in decline due to
> > temperature and not due to lack of carbon. When time-temperature
> has
> > been met the compost is moved to curing and the temperature
> moves in the
> > direction to a more favorable condition and the microbes become
> more
> > active. We should expect an increase. Only if the compost is
> very stable
> > (no available carbon) or dried out will the count stay low. The
> question
> > for me is should we test the compost directly after time-temp
> and before
> > curing? We a re counting on all the real pathogens to be killed off
> > during this heat process so can we assume its only the indicator
> > microbes that regrow? I think this is a valid assumption because we
> > permit up to 1000 indicator microbes per gram to live and still
> call it
> > safe. Allowing them to live we can only expect them to increase
> during
> > curing and, perhaps increase to above the 1000 limit. As I have
> > mentioned before I think we should put more importance on
> measuring heat
> > and suggest the fecal test be samples directly after temp-time and
> > before curing as an indicator the heat has been met through out
> the pile.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ALFRED RATTIE wrote:
> >
> > >U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW
> > >Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007
> > >The National forum for those involved in the dev elopment and
> expansion of the
> > composting and organics recycling industry
> > >CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS,
> > >EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE
> AVAILABLE AT THE USCC
> > WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931
> > >
> > >
> > >Some participants of the USCC's STA Program are experiencing a
> failure to meet
> > pathogen reduction (fecal coliform) standards as required by EPA
> 503
> > regulations. This, while not a seemingly unusual situation;
> > >- does not always occur with a given producer's compost
> > >- sometimes occurs only after shipping to a distant STA lab,
> but not during
> > local lab testing (some producers test twice)
> > >- is occurring with both yard trimming and biosolids compost
> > >Two examples of recent problems are listed below:
> > >*********************************************
> **********************************
> >
> **************************************************************************
>
> > >1) I had a series of conversation with an STA lab and several
> others regarding
> > the fecal regrowth issues. Case in point, a recent analysis
> showing a fecal
> > count of 1,900 was received. The five windrows that were
> composited and sampled
> > for this test each passed local lab PFRP testing, i.e. fecal
> coliform analysis.
> > I have documented proof of this. Now we have a set of lab
> results that reflects
> > data that makes this a class 2 product rather than a class 1
> product that it
> > started out as when it came out of the PFRP process. Again, we
> have records
> > documenting time and temperature data as well as the local lab
> fecal colifrom
> > results. What would account for this?
> > >
> > >2) I was failing fecal coliform testing when I shipped my
> compost to an STA lab
> > using the pr escribed TMECC practices. This ended when I used a
> courier service
> > to make an immediate delivery. Is there a regrowth issue
> associated with
> > shipping and handling?
> >
> >*******************************************************************************
>
> >
> **************************************************************************
>
> > >The USCC's STA Program requires participants to pass both
> pathogen and metals
> > testing. We are struggling to understand why these compost
> producers are
> > experiencing this problem. All input is welcome.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Al Rattie
> > >USCC STA Program Administrative/Technical Manager
> > >_______________________________________________
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> >
> > --
> > Frank Shields
> > Soil Control Lab
> > 42 Hangar way
> > Watsonville, CA 95076
> > (831) 724-5422 tel
> > (831) 724-3188 fax
> > frank at compostlab.com
> > www.compostlab.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Compost maillist - Compost at composter.com
> > http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/list info/compost
> >
> > This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are:
> >
> > Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and
> policy e-mail alert
> > service for environmental, food and agricultural industry
> professionals.
> > Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC at fien.com --- www.fien.com
> >
> > Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized,
> in-vessel NaturTech
> > Composting System www.composter.com rcm at composter.com
> >
> > (c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved
> >
> > Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will
> have their
> > posting privelages suspended. No exceptions!
> >
> > Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not
> necessarily the opinion
> > or policy of any organ ization.
> >
> > Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through
> our website at:
> > http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion
> list policies
> > and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or
> other options,
> > go to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
> >
> > For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and
> problems, send a
> > message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at
> compost-owner at composter.com *
>
--
Frank Shields
Soil Control Lab
42 Hangar way
Watsonville, CA 95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
frank at compostlab.com
www.compostlab.com
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