[USCC] Setting Industry Standards
frank
frank at compostlab.com
Fri Nov 10 13:09:38 CST 2006
David and composters,
You are worried that if we test we might find something and if we hold
off long enough the problem will go away.
My worry is this rare opporturnity for the USCC will pass and be
forgotten before we have had a chance to test for E Coli o157 and take
advantage of the chance to demonstrat that the USCC is an industry
leader that sets standards, directs legislature and 'protects the
public'. We may not have such an opportunity again for a long time.
How can the views of two people that work in a compost/environmental lab
for so many years always be so different???
I believe your opinion is shared by many, in fact most.
Thanks
Frank
Schellinger, David A. wrote:
>U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW
>Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007
>The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of the composting and organics recycling industry
>CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS,
>EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931
>
>
>Frank and discussion group,
>Frank, your point is well taken, but the problem does not affect 99% of
>the US farmland (a few that use composted animal wastes) that is not
>growing lettuce and spinach adjacent to cow pastures that may be
>leaching unwanted pathogenic microorganisms to surroundings. This
>appears to be an isolated incident and California is an accidental
>participant in the media paranoia over what were apparently accidental
>releases of pathogens from external sources unrelated to the composting
>industry. Why spread the paranoia to include the composting industry
>when there has been no evidence to suggest a problem exists? Those
>fields weren't even organically grown. I think that we would be doing
>the industry a disservice by bringing the paranoia to this discussion
>group. This has little to do with being an industry leader, but it does
>play into the hands of those who would like nothing better than to see
>all biosolids and manures banned from land application; composted or
>not. There are other crops that can be grown on those same fields that
>are not as liable to be contaminated by potential pathogenic bacterial
>sources that would affect human health.
>
>I think that the incident is being blow out of proportions to the point
>where an advocate for the use of sewage sludge in composting would
>become entranced by the thought of an organic source of contamination
>causing problems for an entire farming industry. If you want to test
>for this pathogen in composted manures, you may be unhappily surprised
>at what you find, or you may not find a problem at all. And, what
>happens if you do find a few of these organisms per gram of compost;
>what level is acceptable? The US EPA 503 regulations say that 1000
>CFU/gram is acceptable for unlimited application of fecal coliform
>contaminated materials to soils (and E. coli strains are the indicator
>for most of these tests). If you think these industry standards used to
>the present date are insufficient, and there has been no evidence of
>this, by all means, your laboratory can take the lead in assessing the
>risk, but lets not make something out of nothing at this time. (GO FOR
>IT FRANK!!!)
>
>Dave Schellinger
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: compost-bounces at composter.com
>[mailto:compost-bounces at composter.com] On Behalf Of frank
>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:48 AM
>To: US Composting Council Compost Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [USCC] Setting Industry Standards
>
>U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW Wyndham
>Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007 The National forum
>for those involved in the development and expansion of the composting
>and organics recycling industry CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS,
>WORKSHOP AGENDAS, EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES
>ARE AVAILABLE AT THE USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE
>USCC AT 631-737-4931
>
>
>David, and composters
>
>
>
>>Frank,
>>What happens if much of the composted manure is found to contain the
>>pathogenic strain of E. coli?
>>
>>
>>
>Good question. We, all in USCC, will need to do something to find a
>means to minimize the risk. Perhaps test for E Coli 0157 at point of
>sale.
>
>
>
>>Will that compost producer be placed at risk because some persons are
>>overly cautious and allowed the incidence of a non-compost related
>>contamination event to influence the pathogen testing regime for all
>>composted manures?
>>
>>
>>
>Yes - that composter will and should be placed at risk until the problem
>is solved to not place all composters at risk. We should not wait until
>someone else discovers their problem. "Overly cautious" !! Living in the
>area surrounded with lettuce and spinach fields being plowed up because
>of no sales, I suggest this is not being overly cautious. Finding E Coli
>0157 in a lot of compost samples will make the clopyralid problem seem
>like someone found a dirty diaper in a compost pile. All I am suggesting
>is the USCC fund a Fact Finding mission to show that we are not affraid
>to look into potential problems and able to police our own to protect
>the public. Once the fact finding mission completes we stop the program
>(hopefully) or make the needed changes in composting procedure and
>monitoring to ensure the public is safe. Isn't this the purpose of the
>USCC???
>
>
>
>> There is no current reason to
>>stress about the pathogenic strain of E. coli in composted manure
>>because the current fecal coliform testing program the uses EC-MUG
>>media tests for the presence of E. coli as the indicator species for
>>fecal coliform bacteria, which is a test for pathogen concentrations.
>>
>>
>>
>We use the MPN 555 procedure. The E coli test that shows coliform at a
>high, but less than 1000 per gram still passes. It would be nice to know
>if it is the E Coli 0157 strain that is at 1000 per gram we are looking
>at. I suggest another, more specific procedure that goes to less than
>one per 25 grams for the 0157.
>
>
>
>>My
>>opinion is that labs could add the pathogen test to their list, but it
>>shouldn't necessarily be included as an STA test and would really only
>>add to the fear factor related to compost use.
>>
>>
>>
>I agree. We only add it if we find it necessary during the fact finding.
>
>But more important we (USCC) have a system set up that will quickly take
>control of these types of problems. IMO we are so close, having all the
>systems in place, but they are left incomplete and are not being used as
>intended. Testing for E Coli 0157 is an opturinity to show regulators,
>and us, that it works. And that we are not afraid of what we will find
>and can handle problems as we find them.
>
>
>
>
>>Whether the pathogenic
>>strain is present or not, the 503 regulations should still be used as a
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>guideline for testing pathogens. If there are greater than 1000 CFU/g
>>fecal coliform bacteria (E. coli), there is a problem. If not, the
>>risk is low.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I would like to see us (USCC) move away from the EPA 503 and develop our
>own limits, (lower than EPA 503) based on our findings. But that is
>another subject. I think 1000 per gram of E Coli 0157 is a little high
>when looking at all the problems we have seen. Before setting a
>standard, or waiting for someone else to do it for us, we should find
>our what is out there. Fact Finding
>
>Frank
>
>
>
>>Dave Schellinger
>>W. A. Callegari Environmental Center
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Frank Shields
>Soil Control Lab
>42 Hangar way
>Watsonville, CA 95076
>(831) 724-5422 tel
>(831) 724-3188 fax
>frank at compostlab.com
>www.compostlab.com
>
>
>
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>This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council.
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are:
>
>Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy e-mail alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry professionals.
>Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC at fien.com --- www.fien.com
>
>Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel NaturTech Composting System www.composter.com rcm at composter.com
>
>(c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved
>
>Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have their posting privelages suspended. No exceptions!
>
>Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily the opinion or policy of any organization.
>
>Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our website at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion list policies and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other options, go to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
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--
Frank Shields
Soil Control Lab
42 Hangar way
Watsonville, CA 95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
frank at compostlab.com
www.compostlab.com
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