[USCC] FW: Re: Fecal Coliform testing issues
Kate Kurtz
kate at compostlab.com
Wed Nov 1 13:29:21 CST 2006
Jennifer,
Many, if not most, of the compost samples that come to our lab are shipped
via air. Most of these samples are shipped to us cold: in a cooler packed
with blue ice, and then double wrapped in airtight zip-lock bags. None (or
very little) oxygen should be exchanged between the organisms living in the
compost sample and the ambient air. Furthermore, if the compost is
sufficiently cool, little to no microbial respiration should be occurring.
The whole point of sending samples cold is to minimize any biological and
chemical changes from occurring during the shipping process. It does not
make sense to me that these samples would go anaerobic because of lower
oxygen levels in the ambient air (that the organisms are not exchanging
with) for a few hours while they are on the airplane. Furthermore, the
majority of the 25-40 compost samples we test for Fecal Coliform each week
come back with counts of less than 2 MPN per gram of material. I imagine
that if fecal coliform regrowth is occurring during the shipping process, it
is happening with the samples that are sent after being poorly packaged:
those that are warm, those that are packed with water ice instead of blue
ice, and those where the bag has broken open during shipping.
I agree with you that we should consider what the heat process does to
beneficial microorganism populations in addition to pathogen reduction.
There are a lot of interesting projects waiting to be done. If only we all
had the time and money.
Kate Kurtz
Laboratory Analyst
Organics Division
Soil Control Lab
42 Hangar Way
Watsonville CA 95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
kate at compostlab.com
www.compostlab.com
-----Original Message-----
From: compost-bounces at composter.com [mailto:compost-bounces at composter.com]
On Behalf Of Jennifer Appel
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:25 AM
To: 'US Composting Council Compost Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [USCC] FW: Re: Fecal Coliform testing issues
U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW
Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007
The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of
the composting and organics recycling industry
CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS,
EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE
USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931
Al,
We had that problem, too. At first we thought the problem was related to
distance. However, we and solved it by altering our shipping method and
also the type of packaging system we use.
I can tell you that in the Compost Tea and Biological Compost testing arena
the method of shipment must be ground. NOT AIR. The light bulb came on for
me while I was skydiving.
I have quite a few Oxygen jumps from airplanes above 20,000 feet. There is
very little O2 available up there.
Here is where I believe most of the problems occur. (Most cargo planes fly
at altitudes around 28,000 MSL). The sample is in transit in a
non-sufficiently oxygenated state it starts to go anaerobic.
As the sample comes down - it heats up - but there is not enough O2 to keep
all the aerated organisms alive and the result you see is a wet, nasty,
un-aerated sample at the lab. Thus you get a negative result.
Sometimes the sample gets "shell shocked"... if the sample was bagged at sea
level at 88d F and the plane lands in Denver at 51d F - the temperature
differential upon opening the cargo door can cause problems... as the
beneficial organisms you want are currently in a "temperature induced coma"
which allows the "bad guys" to go crazy.
We have even seen anaerobic organisms thrive when shipping ground if the
packaging does not allow for enough OTR (Oxygen transmission rate).
Remember the good guys always out-compete the bad guys but they need the
proper environment to work their magic!
The type of packaging you use will also affect the outcome of the sample.
IF the container can breathe - you should have a more beneficial test result
than if you use a non-breathable container system. We use our own
proprietary packaging system.
If the Compost Council would like to acquire scientific data, I will be
happy to give a proposal to jump out of planes at elevations above 20,000
MSL to study the scientific effects on compost utilizing different packaging
options.
Jennifer Appel, RLA, ASLA, LI, CSFIA
TX Landscape Architect # 1930
TX Licensed Irrigator # 4951
Certified Soil Food Web Advisor
www.LandscapeHouston.com
www.LandscapeVitamins.com
713-263-1682 office
713-263-0395 fax
-----Original Message-----
From: compost-bounces at composter.com [mailto:compost-bounces at composter.com]
On Behalf Of epsteinee at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:02 PM
To: US at apollo3.cloudnet.com; Composting at apollo3.cloudnet.com;
Council at apollo3.cloudnet.com; Compost at apollo3.cloudnet.com;
Discussion at apollo3.cloudnet.com; "List <compost"@composter.com
Subject: [USCC] FW: Re: Fecal Coliform testing issues
U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW
Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007
The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of
the composting and organics recycling industry
CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS,
EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE
USCC WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931
If a sample had fecal coliform (FC) bacteria when shipped, there could be
regrowth. When New York City sent their biosolids to Texas and Colorado they
found that before shippment they met the USEPA fecal coliform count of less
than 2 million as required cor Class B. When the material arrived in the
west the count was higher and did not met the regulations.
USEPA's regulations 40CFR503 state that the release of a product is based on
testing before shipment. Therefore one should test the product before
shipment and avoid a second remote test. The test should be reported as MPN.
The membrane filter method is not allowed.One needs to understand the
rational for the 1000 FC regulatory requirement. In 1988 Yanko for LA County
Sanitation Districts conducted a study for USEPA. He found that when the FC
count was below 1000 MPN per gram total dry solids no Salmonella sp. were
detected (details in Epstein, 1997 "The Science of Composting" pg. 459).
Appendix F of the regulations provides for sample preparation for fecal
coliform and Salmonella sp. bacteria.
I have always advised my clients to test for Salmonella sp. bacteria rather
than fecal coliform.
Eliot Epstein
Epstein Environmental Consultants, LLC
--
Eliot Epstein
19 Preston Place
North Easton, MA 02356
Tel: 508-238-1631
Cell: 781-603-7151
E-mail: epsteinee at comcast.net
-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: epsteinee at comcast.net
To: US Composting Council Compost Discussion List <compost at composter.com>
Subject: Re: [USCC] Fecal Coliform testing issues
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:33:47 +0000
If a sample had fecal coliform (FC) bacteria when shipped, there could be
regrowth. When New York City sent their biosolids to Texas and Colorado they
found that before shippment they met the USEPA fecal coliform count of less
than 2 million as required cor Class B. When the material arrived in the
west the count was higher and did not met the regulations.
USEPA's regulations 40CFR503 state that the release of a product is based on
testing before shipment. Therefore one should test the product before
shipment and avoid a second remote test. The test should be reported as MPN.
The membrane filter method is not allowed.One needs to understand the
rational for the 1000 FC regulatory requirement. In 1988 Yanko for LA County
Sanitation Districts conducted a study for USEPA. He found that when the FC
count was below 1000 MPN per gram total dry solids no Salmonella sp. were
detected (details in Epstein, 1997 "The Science of Composting" pg. 459).
Appendix F of the regulations provides for sample preparation for fecal
coliform and Salmonella sp. bacteria.
I have always advised my clients to test for Salmonella sp. bacteria rather
than fecal coliform.
Eliot Epstein
Epstein Environmental Consultants, LLC
--
Eliot Epstein PhD
Adjunct Professor of Public Health
Boston University
19 Preston Place
North Easton, MA 02356
Tel: 508-238-1631
Cell: 781-603-7151
E-mail: epsteinee at comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
From: ALFRED RATTIE <arconsulting1 at verizon.net>
> U.S. COMPOSTING COUNCIL 15th ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND TRADESHOW
> Wyndham Orlando Resort | Orlando, FL | January 21-24, 2007
> The National forum for those involved in the development and expansion of
the
> composting and organics recycling industry
> CONFERENCE PROGRAM, REGISTRATION FORMS, WORKSHOP AGENDAS,
> EXHIBITOR INFORMATION AND SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE AT THE
USCC
> WEBSITE: www.compostingcouncil.org OR CALL THE USCC AT 631-737-4931
>
>
> Some participants of the USCC's STA Program are experiencing a failure to
meet
> pathogen reduction (fecal coliform) standards as required by EPA 503
> regulations. This, while not a seemingly unusual situation;
> - does not always occur with a given producer's compost
> - sometimes occurs only after shipping to a distant STA lab, but not
during
> local lab testing (some producers test twice)
> - is occurring with both yard trimming and biosolids compost
> Two examples of recent problems are listed below:
>
****************************************************************************
****
> *************************************************************************
> 1) I had a series of conversation with an STA lab and several others
regarding
> the fecal regrowth issues. Case in point, a recent analysis showing a
fecal
> count of 1,900 was received. The five windrows that were composited and
sampled
> for this test each passed local lab PFRP testing, i.e. fecal coliform
analysis.
> I have documented proof of this. Now we have a set of lab results that
reflects
> data that makes this a class 2 product rather than a class 1 product that
it < BR>> started out as when it came out of the PFRP process. Again, we
have records
> documenting time and temperature data as well as the local lab fecal
colifrom
> results. What would account for this?
>
> 2) I was failing fecal coliform testing when I shipped my compost to an
STA lab
> using the prescribed TMECC practices. This ended when I used a courier
service
> to make an immediate delivery. Is there a regrowth issue associated with
> shipping and handling?
>
****************************************************************************
****
> *************************************************************************
> The USCC's STA Program requires participants to pass both pathogen and
metals
> testing. We are struggling to understand why these compost producers are
> experiencing this problem. All input is welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Al Rattie
> USCC STA Program Adminis trative/Technical Manager
> _______________________________________________
> Compost maillist - Compost at composter.com
> http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>
> This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are:
>
> Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy e-mail
alert
> service for environmental, food and agricultural industry professionals.
> Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC at fien.com --- www.fien.com
>
> Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel
NaturTech
> Composting System www.composter.com rcm at composter.com
>
> (c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved
>
> Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have their
> posting privelages suspended. No exceptions!
>
> Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily the
opinion
> or policy of any organization.
>
> Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our website
at:
> http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion list
policies
> and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or other
options,
> go to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
>
> For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and problems, send
a
> message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at compost-owner at composter.com
_______________________________________________
Compost maillist - Compost at composter.com
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council.
_______________________________________________
Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are:
Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy e-mail
alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry
professionals.
Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC at fien.com --- www.fien.com
Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel NaturTech
Composting System www.composter.com rcm at composter.com
(c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved
Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have their
posting privelages suspended. No exceptions!
Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily the
opinion or policy of any organization.
Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our website
at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion list
policies and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or
other options, go to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and problems, send a
message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at compost-owner at composter.com
_______________________________________________
Compost maillist - Compost at composter.com
http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
This list is a service provided by the US Composting Council.
_______________________________________________
Ongoing Sponsors of the USCC Discussion list are:
Food Industry Environmental Network (FIEN), a regulatory and policy e-mail
alert service for environmental, food and agricultural industry
professionals.
Contact Jack Cooper 301/384-8287 JLC at fien.com --- www.fien.com
Renewable Carbon Management, LLC with the containerized, in-vessel NaturTech
Composting System www.composter.com rcm at composter.com
(c) Copyright 2006 United States - All rights reserved
Members posting CC copies to the list and other addresses will have their
posting privelages suspended. No exceptions!
Opinions expressed represent only the poster and are not necessarily the
opinion or policy of any organization.
Non-members of USCC are encouraged to join the Council through our website
at: http://www.compostingcouncil.org/membership.cfm For discussion list
policies and information regarding subscribing, unsubscribing, digest or
other options, go to:http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost
For additional help in unsubscribing or to report bugs and problems, send a
message to the List Manager, Jim McNelly, at compost-owner at composter.com
More information about the Compost
mailing list