[USCC] Compost Digest Vol 29, #1, et seq, continuing discussion between Al Rubin, Rufus

[frank]

Compost list;
IMO
There are many things regarding health when using biosolids that we do 
not know, and will never know.  We work off of 'risk' when using 
biosolids and about everything else we do.  We can never say biosolids 
is safe to use but we can say it has a very low risk based on lab 
testing and past experience.  We should do everything we can to lower 
the risk when using biosolids because, in doing that, we need to find 
and reduce pollutants going into the waste stream. And we need to make 
sure when composting biosolids we do it in a manner that reduces the 
risk further by means of optimum degradation of contaminants. And when 
using biosolids we need to reduce the risk by optimizing field 
application rates to the needs of the field.

Do we really believe composting biosolids with only wood chips and 
regulating the application of a biosolids compost to only specific sites 
in high application rates is the best way to reduce risk and promote 
biosolids compost to the public? I suggest the following needs be done:

1) Heat and temperature is what is required to kill microbes. Fecal 
coliform counts have nothing to do with it. We need to do a better job 
of monitoring the temperature throughout a windrow. We need to record 
readings by GPS location and keep track of them using verifiable means.

2) Like the microbes that slowly develop during an oil spill that 
degrades the oil, most all contaminants, be it pesticides in yardwaste 
to toxins in biosolids, will have some microbe that can degrade it.  We 
need to provide the best environment to promote these microbes. IMO that 
is mixing small amounts of the mostly already degraded biosolids with 
large amounts of highly available carbon such as found in yardwaste and 
manures. In a windrow compost the outside of the pile is mesophilic and 
the inside is thermophilic providing all types of microbes to choose 
from. Turning and mixing keeps a wide variety of microbes in contact 
with the contaminants. If a small amount of the previous pile is added 
as a microbe seed to start then next windrow, over time, we may have the 
best conditions to degrade toxins. Toxins that we find are not degraded 
should be searched out and eliminated from the environment.

3) The public will never accept biosolids until we present it to them in 
a manor that is presentable.  Compost where biosolids are used in high 
concentrations is not a presentable product. It smells the all to 
familiar 'biosolids smell'. If all biosolids is composted at a rate of  
less than five % by volume with other materials the smell is masked or 
degraded in the process. Every compost should have a small amount of 
biosolids and every biosolids compost should be 'presentable'.

Over the past forty years we have made great strides in removing toxins 
from our waste streams. We needed to separate biosolids due to the high 
concentrations of toxins as we were doing it. But now that we pass the 
503 regulations with flying colors why are we not moving forward? Why do 
we still have the same regulations that permit yardwaste compost to not 
use manures, manure compost that cannot add woodwaste, biosolids that 
must be composted alone with yardwaste and applied on only specific 
fields in high concentrations? The best compost will use what is needed 
to make the best, safest compost and we need those choices. If we stand 
still due to being restricted by regulations we are sitting ducks for 
taking pot shots from groups scared of biosolids and we will slowly be 
taken down.  We need to keep moving. We need to move biosolids into main 
stream compost in small amounts and only  present biosolids to the 
public in a presentable product. Then market compost as recycling 
organics and 'doing the right thing'.

Frank



The Rubins wrote:

>Edo:
>
>>From your posting, I believe that we have come to the end of our discussion 
>on the safety and efficacy of biosolids and biosolids composts.  I leave you 
>with the comments of Elliot Epstein that you sent into the USSC List serve 
>late last night.  Elliot hit the nail on the head by emphasizing the 
>enormous amounts of biosolids-based composts  that have been produced and 
>successfully marketed and used with superb results without ONE DOCUMENTED 
>human health impact reported.  That is the observation that forms my 
>position.  It is your responsibility to go out and actually obtain peer 
>reviewed data on either biosolids, biosolids composts, soils, food crops, 
>etc, to sway me or any other member of this List Serve from that position.
>
>Citing Japanese studies of pathogen resistant microbes in raw sewage just 
>doesn't cut it (this from one of your earlier postings to this List Serve). 
>I leave it to other members of this List Serve to continue to debate you. 
>As for your solicitation to the "industry" to employ your services, my 
>advice to you is don't quit your day job.
>
>Cheers
>
>Alan
>
>  
>

-- 
Frank Shields
Soil Control Lab
42 Hangar way
Watsonville, CA  95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
frank at compostlab.com
www.compostlab.com