[USCC] Compost Digest, Vol 30, Issue 9, Item #3--Response to Frank

Fri Aug 11 06:21:53 CDT 2006

Edo:

As before, you have not offered any evidence that support your assertions. 
We are all waiting for any documented case of disease to be reported from 
the use of biosolids or biosolids composts.  Until you or anyone else can 
report such a case, your assertions and hypotheses cannot be taken 
seriously.

Cheers

Alan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Edo McGowan" <edomcgowan at earthlink.net>
To: <compost at composter.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:18 PM
Subject: [USCC] Compost Digest, Vol 30, Issue 9, Item #3--Response to Frank

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Frank, I think we are talking of the same things here. Perhaps it is is just 
my perspective and choice of terms. You state-------NO! I MEAN TOXINS - 
THINGS THAT SHOW TOXICITY. MICROBES, METALS AND ANY ORGANIC COMPOUND THAT 
HAS SHOWN TOXICITY AND IS IN CONCENTRATIONS TO BE CONSIDERED AT A RISK.

It thus seems that we then need to define terms so we are not in some sort 
of senseless semantic argument. I will look at two terms--- TOXIN and 
POISON.

 TOXIN_____as defined in a scientific context, is a biologically produced 
substance that, in a dose related context, can causes injury to the health. 
It is a poisonous substance, especially a protein, that is produced by 
living cells or organisms and is capable of causing disease when introduced 
into the body tissues but is often also capable of inducing neutralizing 
antibodies or antitoxins.

POISON--------as defined in a scientific context is a dose-related substance 
that can cause injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means. The 
basis of this is discussed in the writings of Theophrastus Bombastus von 
Hohenheim who we know as Paracelsus.

Given the above, then pathogens would seem to fit into the context of TOXIN 
AND POISON, and heavy metals into POISONS.

When however one looks at transfer of genetic information, the result can be 
initially independent of what normally would be considered as a dose 
response aliquot. Thus small initial numbers can, upon ingestion, soon 
become very large numbers (10 to the 9th+) by transfer into the ever 
expanding commensal population of the gut flora. Here Iâ?Tm discussing 
pathology caused by the transfer of antibiotic resistance or virulence 
islands. Thus this fits well into both the definitions of TOXIN and RISK.

Sjolund et al. (2005) indicated that resistance in the normal flora, which 
may last up to four-years, might contribute to increased resistance in 
higher-grade pathogens through interspecies transfer. These authors go on to 
note that since populations of the normal biota are large, this affords the 
chance for multiple and different resistant variants to develop. This thus 
enhances the risk for spread to populations of pathogens. Furthermore, there 
is crossed resistance. For example, vancomycin resistance may be maintained 
by using macrolides [Giacometti A, et al In vitro activity and killing 
effect of uperin 3.6 against gram- positive cocci isolated from 
immunocompromised patients. Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 2005 
Sep;49(9):3933-6. Robertson GT, et al. Vancomycin tolerance induced by 
erythromycin but not by loss of vncRS, vex3, or pep27 function in 
Streptococcus pneumoniae. J Bacteriol. 2002 Dec;184(24):6987-7000].

The new WERF paper that discusses finding viable but non culturable  (VBNC) 
pathogens but only after centrifuging, and then at magnitudes above what 
standard plate counts show, then raises some very serious issues for 
composting. I wrote about this a few years ago but it fell on deaf ears. 
Thus, what the compost industry has been characteristically getting from 
many POTWs and what has been going on the fields via land spreading is 
probably just a big unknown. Consequently, the belief that the sewage sludge 
met standards is probably just a fiction, but then, no one was willing to 
consider VBNC as an issue---principally because sewer plant operators and 
regulators are not trained in these areas, yet are responsible for 
protecting public health. Thus because these people donâ?Tt appreciate these 
issues therefore they never consider them. But that doesnâ?Tt mean they 
donâ?Tt exist. How then does your industry that depends on a chain of 
regulatory compliance know of this---are you, as an industry, actually 
getting stuff that is meeting standards?

 Francois Vandenesch, et al (2003) in discussing Panton-Valentine 
leukocidin, and community-acquired methicillin resistant Staph aureus, notes 
that the genetic transfer is important. Trello Beffa, et al (1996) notes 
that gram negative rods in high numbers are surviving at themeratures up to 
82 C in open air windrows of commercial composting. Other authors, (I do not 
have the citations right in front of me because I am not at my base), have 
indicated survival at high temperatures or regrowth of pathogens following 
cooling. Adrian Unc and others have discussed regrowth. Thus, it is quite 
possible to see the horizontal transfer of genetic material conferring both 
virulence and resistance.

Accordingly, the current U.S. EPA Class B biosolids with its allowed fecal 
coliform counts of 2 X10/6 per gram may actually constitute a large aliquot 
when containing MDRB and applied to areas with soil and water movement and 
animal or vector access. When considering the new WERF study, this limit of 
2X 10/6 becomes more worrisome because it is probably a fiction.

Hassen, et al found that, gram-positive bacteria, especially micrococcus, 
spores of bacilli, and fungal propagules survived, and reached high 
concentrations in compost. Not only that, "the appearance of gram-negative 
rods (opportunistic pathogens) during the cooling phase may represent a 
serious risk for the sanitary quality of the finished product intended for 
agronomic reuse." (Bioresour Technol 2001 Dec;80(3):217-25).

Thus, I think you and I are actually discussing very similar issues. I want 
to see composting thrive, where else can you take liabilities of waste 
products and turn them into assets; but that conversion must be based on 
modern scientific rationale and not spin or ignorance.

To conclude, the following thought is a statement by the WHO chief of 
Communicable Disease, David Heymann, before the US Senate hearing on The 
Spread of Communicable Disease, in 2001.

SOME MICROBES HAVE ACCUMULATED RESISTANT GENES TO VIRTUALLY ALL CURRENTLY 
AVAILABLE DRUGS. THUS, THESE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO CAUSE UNTREATABLE 
INFECTIONS. ACCORDINGLY, SUCH DISEASES MAY HAVE NO EFFECTIVE CURES OVER THE 
NEXT 10 YEARS UNLESS THERE IS SOME UNCHARACTERISTIC BREAKTHROUGH IN DRUG 
THERAPY. THEREFORE, IF CURRENT TRENDS CONTINUE, MANY IMPORTANT MEDICAL AND 
SURGICAL PROCEDURES, INCLUDING CANCER THERAPY, BONE MARROW AND ORGAN 
TRANSPLANT, HIP AND KNEE REPLACEMENT, AND CORONARY BYPASS SURGERY COULD NO 
LONGER BE UNDERTAKEN WITHOUT UNDUE RISK OF UNSTOPPABLE INFECTION.

Cheers-----------------Edo

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