[USCC] Vol 29, #9--Regulation by various agencies

Thu Aug 10 22:29:22 CDT 2006

Frank, 
To each their own, but you will never know where the hot spot is in a
windrow unless several readings are taken, because the hot spots will not be
consistently at the same depth; hence another need for taking several
temperature readings at each location.  

It's too bad things just can't be simple and easy as you have portrayed.
That's just the way it really is!!  We expect a number of chemical tests to
be run on various forms of hazardous wastes, so why not biosolids?  The goal
is not necessarily to make things easier for the biosolids handlers, but to
make the industry less susceptible to injury and criticism.  Just like
pathogenic microorganisms, total petroleum hydrocarbons or some other
chemical attribute could be used as an indicator or chemical contamination,
as could be one or two pharmaceutical indicators.  We need not make the
effort difficult or expensive, but should provide some level of security. 

To be a toxin, a chemical or property only has to be capable of having toxic
effects, not necessarily in the materials at hand.  Hexachlorobenzene is a
toxin in whatever material it is found regardless of the concentrations, as
are PCBs or acrylamides and dioxins.  The levels to which they are observed
in materials dictate the toxicity of the materials in which they are
observed.  I do not believe the only concern in composting biosolids can be
production of a stable material, or there would be no reason for regulatory
control.    

The study that I quoted used some information originally derived by Elliot
Epstein and others.  The literature clearly does not indicate that
temperature readings could in any way be used to estimate the pathogen kill
in biosolids compost.  The only way temperatures could be used to indicate
that pathogens were killed would be if temperatures exceeded 70 degrees C
for a short period, meaning that all of the materials would have to exposed
to this temperature over several turnings.  Temperatures are used to reduce
pathogens, and coliform bacterial are the best measure of pathogen levels
after composting.  The only way to assure that spores are not viable would
be to test for the presence of the organisms in the materials (Clostridium
testing).  Again, there is no substitute for microbiological pathogen
testing for pathogens at this time. 

Dave Schellinger
Alternatives, L.L.C.

-----Original Message-----
From: compost-bounces at composter.com [mailto:compost-bounces at composter.com]
On Behalf Of frank
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:11 PM
To: US Composting Council Compost Discussion List
Subject: Re: [USCC] Vol 29, #9--Regulation by various agencies

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David
(snip)

I think all we need is one high temperature in the center of the profile 
to show its working. As I see it, we want a moist, warm temperature to 
get the vegetative forms to develop then turn them in to cook. And 
repeat several times. We do not want to add a lot more layers to 
regulation. Taking center readings (or where it is most hot) along down 
the windrow and average readings the day the pile is turned  (directly 
after turning)  should be enough .

I disagree. Testing for potential contamients is a lot endless testing - 
and impossible. We need to look at known toxins and be ready to act when 
a new, previous unknown toxin shows its face.  Unfortunately to be a 
toxin it needs to first make someone sick, kill someone or be toxic in 
some way before its gets the name of 'toxin'. Thats just the way it is. 
Many of the organic reactions people on this list are concerned with is 
just the normal  biological degradation process that we want to happen. 
It happens and happens until the available carbon is used up and we have 
a stable compost - our goal.

Interesting. And I think what you say shows that temperature 
measurements are a better way to measure reduction of pathogens than 
fecal coliform. And once temperature requirements are met (whatever is 
decided) the windrow can be considered pathogen free to below risk 
levels and no more testing required. For example, ammonia seems to kill 
the fecal coliform in raw manures but I would not be surprised if the  
more resistant spore etc. forms are still viable.

Frank

>  
>

-- 
Frank Shields
Soil Control Lab
42 Hangar way
Watsonville, CA  95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
frank at compostlab.com
www.compostlab.com

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